Lazlo Bonin of Impossible joined us in the Work With Indies Discord in Summer of 2021 for a chat about Été, their studio, and what they look for in new hires. While more specific to a Producer role, we think the full conversation is still worth a read. We've shared that with you below.
Lazlo, thank you so much for being here and sharing your insights with the Work With Indies community! While I let you introduce yourself, let me share the Steam page for your beautiful upcoming game, Été.
Lazlo: Hi everyone! Thanks for having me! So yup, my name's Lazlo, I'm the founder and creative director over at Impossible, a small indie studio based in Montreal. We are crafting a very unique game called Été, an exploration game where you play as a wandering painter who discovers a city with their paintbrush, and we're currently looking for a producer.
I'm also a Unity tools developer operating under the publisher called "Ludiq", which is more famously known for Bolt (now acquired as Unity Visual Scripting) and Peek.
Some links:
What convinced your team it was time to hire a producer? - Chris
Lazlo: Good question, I should clarify! We wanted to work with a producer from day 1 and we did. A producer was my first ever hire on Été. Unfortunately, after a bit more than a year of collaborating with our former producer, we had to let him go. Long story short, COVID made work-life balance very hard to maintain for him and he wasn't able to carry on as many responsibilities as we needed. So we're now looking for someone to jump in mid-project.
I've had the chance of working with wonderful producers/project managers in previous roles in my life and I know how they can entirely uplift a team and make everyone's life easier, so it's definitely a role I value a lot as part of a team from the get-go.
I guess the first question I have is the role you are looking to fill. Is it for an experienced game producer? Or are you looking for someone who may be jr and looking to learn and grow in the role? - The_Ginger_Sheep
Lazlo: Our ideal candidate has "gone through the motions" at least once, meaning having shipped 1 title, no matter the scale. This is because we're going to head into a release year in 2022 with all that entails (QA, cert, platform holders, loc, etc.) and we don't have in-house experience with this.
That being said, I worded the job posting to focus mainly on the "qualities" of a candidate, because in my book any organized and determined person can make a good producer, regardless of specific industry experiences. This is also why our salary range is so wide (50-90k$): for a junior candidate who shows potential up to a more mid-career producer with more experience.
Also, [.c-highlight]we've worked with juniors so far who have exceeded all our expectations, so we're definitely open to seeing someone grow with us.[.c-highlight] It may be a steep learning curve considering the amount of responsibilities though.
[.c-insight]💡 Love this! As it is rare, it is so very encouraging when we hear of indie developers creating space for junior employees and giving them opportunities to grow.[.c-insight]
With the possibility of remaining remote post-pandemic, does this include the entire team as well? Will there still be a physical office in the future? - Katherine
Lazlo: We actually haven't settled on office vs WFH in the long term yet! I consider this to be a team-wide decision and we'll definitely have an open and democratic decision about it.
When we started production on this project, we were in GamePlay Space, a coworking space for indies in Montreal with about ~150 devs. For obvious reasons, it shut down pretty fast with the pandemic. In fact, we were only there for about a month before we had to leave. So the entire production far was done in WFH and we've found our workflow and cruising speed. We're totally happy & functional in WFH as it is, but I know there are more socialite/extroverted people on the team who miss the human interactions.
For this role, we accept candidates who would be purely remote, even outside Montreal, as long as they are Canadian (due to Canada Media Fund constraints) and within +1 or -1 hour of the Eastern time zone.
The responsibilities laid out in the job post strike me as... kind of a lot, honestly- possibly more than I would expect a mid-level producer to handle entirely on their own. How would you see the responsibilities of the role changing depending on the level of experience you hire? - Chris
Lazlo: In the context of a 6-8 people team, we all wear a lot of hats, and I get that it [.c-highlight]can be too much context switching for some people[.c-highlight]. The responsibilities are wide but as the founder of the studio, I'd always be nearby to provide help and share the workload in more intense moments. Currently, I'm doing all these production responsibilities + my other responsibilities, which is obviously too much, but I believe that at 2 people we could split this healthily without any overtime. (In fact, I've seen it work in the past with our former producer!)
[.c-insight]💡 We love that Lazlo is thinking about context switching and the impact that it can have on one's ability to not only be productive but produce high-quality results. Great to see this level of awareness and consideration in a leader. Learn more about context switching from RescueTime and Doist.[.c-insight]
What kinds of soft skills are you looking for producers? - Ellis
Lazlo: Soft skills: First and foremost those I mentioned & described in the posting (organized, meticulous, communicative, confident, reactive). Beyond that, [.c-highlight]I want a producer that will uplift our team, give them the room to grow and the tools to do so, who leads by inspiring rather than enforcing[.c-highlight]. So far, we have a very tight and cohesive team, we take decisions together (except for subject-matter expertise) and we have little to no conflict. I want to keep this vibe going, basically. 🙂
I want a producer that will uplift our team, give them the room to grow and the tools to do so, who leads by inspiring rather than enforcing.
Hey Lazlo it's been a while since I worked with you! I hope you are doing well. I'm wondering what drew you and your team to create an experience like Été compared to other genres and styles. - Emmett
Lazlo: Emmett!!!! Hi! Ahh how are you doing?! 😄 This is crazy haha. That's a large question haha... hmm... I've always wanted to make a game that makes people connect with the real world and enjoy the wonders of the ordinary. Été is hopefully this; it's set in a real-ish (but idealized) Montreal, you meet people going about their daily lives, and you have the freedom to paint and explore as you wander.
On a market perspective, I liked the relaxing aspect of narrative games and walking sims, but in my personal taste, I always found them to be not engaging enough. We're hoping to fix that by giving a bit more player agency, objectives, growth, etc. and actually letting them do something, has an impact on the world. Anyway, I could talk about this for days, lemme know if there's anything more specific you want to know.
Long term, how much do you expect the studio to grow? - Chris
Lazlo: We're currently 5 people and at the peak of the production I expect the core team wouldn't be more than 8 people at most. We also work with contractors for things like audio, marketing, etc., so it's not all "in-house" but those teams may be much larger so I don't count them in.
Have there been any changes to été since its reveal back in 2019? As in evolving concepts and ideas? - Katherine
Lazlo: A lot! The design has gone through so many iterations with the help of Alvaro, the designer we brought on board at the beginning of production. To be super candid, we called the design a "beast", because it was very hard to get right. The balance between "relaxing" and "engaging" is a very tight rope to walk (especially with little to no references as there are few comparable games), but after months of iterations, we're really happy with where we landed with our core.
The structure became less linear and more open-ended, the player has clearer objectives and a simple but satisfying growth curve with their painting ability à la Journey scarf or A Short Hike feathers. I'm suuuper eager to show an updated demo, but we're playing it close to the chest for now.
Are there any transferable skills from other game-related jobs that you think would help with becoming a Producer? - Shelby
Lazlo: Hmm, of course, any role that implied leadership (team lead/project manager) is a clearer direct transfer. I've worked with people from QA backgrounds but I realized that even though some day-to-day tasks are similar on the surface (JIRA / ticket management / etc.), there's a wider breadth of organizational skills involved, so I don't see it as an obvious role transition.
Where do you think a producer could have the biggest impact for your team as they are right now? - Chris
Lazlo: Well, even though I'm doing my absolute best, there's some neglect in keeping up with the needs or each individual team member, because I have so many other responsibilities to juggle at the same time. I think a producer might have the biggest impact on me, in the sense that I could delegate most of the production responsibilities to them and focus on creative direction and code. This would trickle to every other person on the team though, in the form of faster feedback, better-defined plans, etc.
Hey Lazlo, first of all, amazing art style! I saw the teaser of Été, and the way you guys portraited the female character hooked me up to add it to my wishlist!My question for you is, how strong is the French requirement for the position? I saw it is considered as "extra" but I would like to know how much less impactful it would be for someone who is a non-French speaker to work on this position? - Pruthvi
Lazlo: French is definitely a plus in the sense that the VO and original script will be written in French, and I want the producer to have a deep knowledge of the game, so it helps if they can read the script directly. But it's labeled as an extra because all our documentation (including a script outline) is in English, and all our team meetings are in English, and everyone on the team speaks English, so there's really no hard requirement.
Oh and thanks for the kind words! 🙏
I have a question regarding the producer's qualifications. Is the project management certification (like PMP) going to give a high impact to your consideration of the prospective candidate? How significant is it going to boost the 'value' of the producer's candidate? - Zak
Lazlo: Hmm, well I'd certainly see it as a plus, but I personally don't have a tendency to weigh formation/degrees that strongly on resumes. I mostly care about the relevant experience (even better with references), culture fit, and generally "clicking" well in terms of communication during an interview (especially for a role where we'll be working so closely together).
I know that people have mentioned how QA, Community Management, General Management, have skills that would help them to switch to Production. Do you agree with that sentiment? Or do you think that Production tends to be its own, unique role that involves a number of skills that you can't get from those other roles? - Shelby
Lazlo: Of course, all those roles definitely have varying degrees of transferable skills, but they also have varying descriptions and involvement from the people who occupy them. For example, I know of someone (in fact, a few people) who had "Community Manager" as a title but really did some form of studio management, release management, ticketing, etc. on top of their CM responsibilities. That's really worth mentioning specifically if it applies to you because it might not be obvious from the title.
Follow-up for the second part of the question: I think production is among the vaguest of job descriptions, where the individual qualities of the person matter the most (keeping the eye on the prize, staying organized and never overwhelmed, having the confidence to figure something out in new situations, being communicative and solving conflict healthily, etc.)
Silly question time- any sorts of fun facts or interesting hobbies among the team? Do y'all have any activities you do together? - Chris
Lazlo: A little bit! Pandemic made this a little hard, to be honest. We just started a Minecraft server together, and we've been meaning to play Honey Heist for months, but we never found the time (or when we did, it was forbidden by COVID regulations). Next week now that most restrictions are lifted in Montreal we'll have our first team dinner in person in a loooooong time!
To be perfectly honest, I'm having trouble personally setting time aside for social within the studio (as I'm unfortunately having to wear 2 hats right now, production+direction), and thankfully Jazz (our extra sociable and super nice animator) has kind of taken over. Leslee's video (like most of hers!) is painfully true, producers tend to be the entire planning committee, and I'm missing one!
One thing we started doing recently (especially when nearing the end of milestones when our work is more interconnected) is to stay on a voice channel in Discord all day. Some people turn on their webcam, some people sometimes watched a cartoon (Bob's Burgers or Adventure Time!) in the background. It was a nice "virtual presence"
What would you say is the area that your studio needs the most improvement? - Shelby
Lazlo: Hmm, not to congratulate ourselves too much, but I think we're a very healthy & productive studio right now, and I don't see any major issue we'd need to address. Of course, we have a lot of room to grow in every direction because we've never collectively shipped a game all the way to the finish line (even though some of us have at previous roles in other companies), so every day we're learning & adapting to the reality of being indies.
What would be the most challenging task for the producer in your team? - Pruthvi
Lazlo: That depends on the person's experience! We're already mid-production and have found our "cruising speed" (good processes, workflows, etc.) which is a double-edged sword: on the one hand, there's no need to create a process from the ground up, but on the other hand, we have some habits that the producer would need to adapt to (even if it means changing them in the end!). Other than that, as someone else mentioned before, this is a small team so the role has a lot of different responsibilities -- a challenge would be prioritizing and alternating between multiple dishes all cooking at once if that makes sense. 😉
So basically I'm looking for someone who's great at Overcooked. 🥘
As we get close to the hour, do you have any final words of advice or encouragement to those of us interested in applying for your Producer role? - Katherine
Lazlo: Oh wow already!!! I'd been typing furiously haha this is more demanding in terms of finger-muscle-flexing than I thought. Hmm, my final words would be to apply even if you don't fit all the qualifications but you do fit all the qualities listed.
[.c-highlight]We're hiring a person above all, not a resume.[.c-highlight]
That is especially true if you're a woman or a marginalized person. [.c-highlight]You would not believe how many resumes we get from men who don't tick all the boxes, but almost only from men.[.c-highlight] Try anyway and if we're not a great fit there will be other opportunities!
[.c-insight]💡 Research shows that women and POC are less likely to apply for a job where they do not meet 100% of the requirements, whereas white males will apply when they meet 60-70% of the requirements. Great jobs are those where you can perform the critical functions well from the start, but leave you ample room for growth and the fulfillment that comes along with learning new things and rising to challenges. Thus, our ideal roles are those where we don't meet 100% of the qualifications– so please don't let that discourage you.[.c-insight]
Beautiful! Thank you so much for your time today, Lazlo!! Also, everyone wishlist Été on Steam because HOW CAN YOU NOT.
Lazlo: Thank you SOOOO much for having me WW/I and everyone, your questions were all super relevant and I hope I've been able to help!
