Len joined us in the Work With Indies Discord in August 2021 to chat with our members about their experience at Kitten Cup Studio, a then current open character artist open, and their ultimate tea-making tricks. Below is a recap of that conversation.
👋 Len, thank you for being here and sharing your insights with the Work With Indies community!
😻 Hello folks! I am Len, the community manager for Kitten Cup Studio. We're a Toronto-based studio currently working on our first game Pekoe, a game about hanging out with cats in a village all about making tea. You'll be hanging out with residents and making tea for them as well as guests who come to the town.
🍵 Tea sounds so good right now.
🍵 Let me go ahead and share the beautiful trailer for Pekoe:
😻 Len: Working on Pekoe has been really interesting as I have always been more of a coffee person and it's making me explore tea more.
🍵 Have you acquired a favorite tea? - Katherine
😻 Len: Genmaicha!It has more roasty/popcorn flavour that is a bit.... less delicate? than lots of teas which I feel has been a nice transition tea.
🍵 With you being more of a coffee person, what was the inspiration behind creating a game about cozy vibes, tea, and cats? - Katherine
😻 Len: The idea for Pekoe came from our Art Director Saffron, who was very tired after working on too many projects and made herself a cup of tea, then though "What if cup of tea.... but game???"
🍵 Interested in applying, but I don't live in Ontario. should I still send an application? (I am in the US) - Color
😻 Len: You can apply which will keep you on our radar, but given how our funding was received we have to make considerations about what funding goes to work outside of Ontario.
For clarity on that, we received funding from Ontario Creates which exists to create jobs within the province. Thus, the requirement of funding is that as much as possible we are spending it within the province. They match funding 50% to whatever you bring to the table up to a cap depending on the granting stream (which means double the budget!)
🍵 Does this mean that if you were hired outside of Ontario, you would only have half the budget for that position? Or, that you would then have to reallocate other funds internally to make up for the fact that a portion of your budget has shifted to outside of the province? - Nate
😻 Len: If we hire outside of the province, we're responsible for finding outside funding for that person. We would have to reallocate internal funding out of other places to put it into that position, yes.
🍵 Were any of the cats in the game inspired by real-life pets? - Cameron
😻 Len: We've talked about it! Taffy, who is the cat you see in the trailer, is actually inspired by a DnD one-shot Saffron ran about 6 years ago for Halloween.
In terms of real-life cats, it's definitely something we think would be really fun but how to implement it hasn't gone beyond "That would be cute".
🍵 Hi Len! Thanks for being a part of this AMA. I already applied but I wanted to ask what you were looking for in an application? - AlphaCentAri
😻 Len: Big ones, having gone through everything are as follows:
- Topology! It's difficult to understand how a model actually performs just seeing a render of it. Especially given that the game leans heavily towards lower poly, understanding how a model is made is very important. I suggest things like SketchFab as it allows us to not only see your final render, but also the wireframes, normals, bones, so on. It gives us a much stronger sense of where someone is in terms of 'game readiness'.
- [.c-highlight]Please read through the full thing! I put several things in the application that by answering it tells me you've read and understood all of the small details that help us get a sense of how detail-oriented you are.[.c-highlight]
- [.c-highlight]Does your application read like you know anything about us/the game? It is really clear on an application if someone has read about/looked through things when you write about yourself/experience/why you're a good fit.[.c-highlight]
- Push back! Ask us questions through email. It helps us know how serious you are not only because getting clarification/asking about things outside of the application gives clarity, but it communicates that you're thinking seriously about what it means to be a part of our studio.
[.c-insight]💡 Notice that the last 3 bullet points above are all about customizing your application and inquiries to show that you are paying attention to the job description and are truly interested and excited about this role.
This is so incredibly important to both the hiring manager, as well as to your and your chances of receiving a call-back. Len is looking for people that want to work with them, at their company, on Pekoe, not someone that is just looking for any old job.
Less than half of the applications a hiring manager typically receives will contain content that references the specific role. Read and follow the instructions in the job description, then customize your applications to each role, and you immediately jump into the top 50% of candidates.[.c-insight]
🍵 You've received a decent amount of applications already. What are some things that have set the better candidates apart from the others? - Nate
😻 Len: [.c-highlight]Good candidates make it easy to see their best work.[.c-highlight] While we're a small studio, it still takes time to go through all of the applications. If you can show me in a few samples your strongest work, it makes my job a lot easier as I don't need to wade through everything to find the things I need.
Also, a strong understanding of making things cute! It's hard because often it feels like games school encourages you to do hyperrealism, but the game is ultimately about cute things. Showing an understanding of simplicity, roundness, things like that help us understand how your skills translate. We've been sent some really well-modeled guns though!
🍵 What is it like being on the hiring side of things, rather than the one being hired? Has it provided you with any useful insights that you didn't consider before? - Cameron
😻 Len: It's made me appreciate Work With Indies more. I have a lot of experience curating (as in, looking at things for showcase in a festival or art show), but less with hiring. People's applications for jobs are V E R Y different than an art application. While kind of sparse, generally art folks applying for showcase have a lot of experience parring down their applications to be just 'the thing', rather than showing me everything.
Reading cover letters is very interesting though!
🍵 The job posting mentions the ability to wear multiple hats. Beyond art, where could you improve? Where do you need help? - Katherine
😻 Len: As the team is small, we often do other things than just our title. We talk a LOT about how mechanics should feel for example, where everyone has time to say what they think. The studio culture is very much about riffing, taking someone's idea, and running with or adding to that. In particular, being a generalist is always appealing as also being able to say rig/animate fills a lot of the currently unworn hats on the team.
I think the thing that has been important to me about wearing multiple hats is it helps you have a more global view of the process of game development. How does the character move in animation, how does the character move in the world, to how that world is designed for the player. We've all only worked in indie, so it's a bit hard to say if this process is better in any way, but it is how we work
🍵 What is your favorite thing about working with Kitten Cup Studio? What kind of things would you want someone to know about the dynamics to encourage them to apply? - Shelby
😻 Len: One of my favourite things is that we talk about things, and not in a like "we only talk about mechanics" way. There's a lot of space for things like "hey, this character is maybe developing in a weird direction, can we revisit why this arch might not work/be inappropriate/makes me feel concerned."
[.c-highlight]We often talk about things like our mental health, our cultures, or working styles in an open way that I think helps everyone feel more comfortable with work. It's a culture where talking about your feelings (and having space to have those feelings heard) is always forefront.[.c-highlight]
We obviously want the game to come out as soon as possible, but have a pretty strict no crunch policy. While of course folks can work when they want for their hours during the week, generally we all will check in if someone is going too hard and remind them to take time off.
(We have 1 check-in a day, and otherwise, unless it's directly a meeting we just work away when we want throughout the day as only one person is full time.)
🍵 How do you determine which applications need to do an art test? - AlphaCentAri
😻 Len: As the work is a contract position for hours, we want to know how quickly someone can work so if we need to address things like changing hours we can have some idea of what that may look like. This comes back to the 'we want to make sure people are working at healthy speeds' thing.
While we've never done an art test before as this is our first outside hire, it will likely be timed as in we want to know how far you got in a particular time rather than 'here is 3 days give us what you give us' kind of thing. That will hopefully avoid the overwork that can sometimes happen with tests. I am 100% guilty of this! I've put 40+ hours into a test I didn't get the position in, which is time I will never get back 😢
In terms of who does the test, we'll select at the end of the application process the next round of folks whose work makes it past the first call. There are still 12 days so there's no telling who might apply!
ie, using something like a time tracking plugin for Blender so we can see how long the file was worked on.
🍵 Do you guys offer internships? - Blend
😻 Len: Currently no. Right now we're still in the process of putting together the company itself. Also very personally internships have always made me feel a bit wiggly? I think they have to be the right dynamic and I've only ever had bad internship experiences with it mostly being exploitative. I think if there is a future where we take someone on it would be for a junior position or a mentorship.
🍵 What 3D software are you guys using for Pekoe? In addition, do you expect to have more open positions for other roles in the future? - Knives
😻 Len: We use Blender! It was mostly because we didn't want to pay for a larger program, and also because it was what was encouraged when we were in school. Saffron, who is the owner of Kitten Cup, and I went to university together.
Yes, hopefully! Right now finding a 3D Character Artist defines what roles we would need to look for in the future as they may cover other positions we need.
🍵 What are some of the skeletons in Kitten Cup's closet? Is there anything about the company and culture would you like to see improve? - Nate
😻 Len: I think sometimes we are too relaxed? I mean this in the most loving way, but as someone who needs deadlines, we push a lot of them around to accommodate things. We've improved a lot since the company was founded and we got more serious, but to give a timeline the game was started in 2018.
We definitely could use more structure, and the laxness meant we, unfortunately, had to stop working with some folks. We've definitely had folks hop on or hop out of the company in the early days as we were all still figuring things out. Shout out to the producer we had for a bit who left because none of us had time to work on a passion project at the time 😭
(it also turns out getting funding makes everyone a lot more serious about getting work done!)
🍵 What will you be looking for and evaluating during the two-month probation period? - Katherine
😻 Len: For the 3D Character Artist a big thing is finding someone who can work well with the art direction of the game. Being able to take concepts and build upon them without too much back and forth. What would be best is someone who can take the things that make a 2D concept great but unworkable and get them to a place where they look good in 3D. Really, the characters are what you look at while playing a character-driven game! If they can nail that translation that's really the goal.
Part of the probation period is also for culture fit. It takes time for everyone to get used to working together and given the space that we're trying to make within the studio culture finding someone who shares those values is really important. It's really hard to get a read on how someone will work with others from an application (returning all the way to the beginning, which is why you should reach out to me/us and ask questions!) as well everyone is trying to put their best self forward when applying. Sometimes things come up with how folks work within our dynamics and may need to be hammered out, or maybe they're a deal breaker. No one knows until we try, and [.c-highlight]the probation period is just as much for you is it is for us[.c-highlight]; it gives everyone a timeline to come back together and check in: Is this working for you/me? Are there things that need to change? Do you want to keep working here?
🍵 The role states that applications close on August 16th. If I need some extra time to prepare my application, will I be considered if I apply near that date? Or do you think you will have already moved forward with other candidates? - Nate
😻 Len: If there's one thing I have learned, again and again, it's to ask questions. Ask me questions right now!!!! But in seriousness, if you need extra time to work on your application it is always better to reach out and say something. While everything is on a case-by-case basis because every situation is unique, life happens.
We're not going to discount anyone for applying closer to the closing date than those who apply early on. Taking time on the application really does show, and the quality and care put in (particularly because the game has a style, please, send us a cute thing! No more guns please!) shows. It's not like right at form close we IMMEDIATELY begin going through things!
🍵 Anything else you would like to share with those that are considering applying for the role? - Nate
😻 Len: If there's one thing I have learned, again and again, it's to ask questions. Ask me questions right now!!!! But in seriousness, if you need extra time to work on your application it is always better to reach out and say something. While everything is on a case-by-case basis because every situation is unique, life happens.
[.c-highlight]IF YOU ARE HISTORICALLY MARGINALIZED IN GAMES AND HAVE ANY HESITANCE IN APPLYING PLEASE REACH OUT. I know I am shouting but really!! 9/10 folks have all of the qualifications or exceed them, and there's never going to be a perfect applicant. Show us your stuff!![.c-highlight]
Always ask for feedback if you don't get a position!! I'll give you all the feedback I can.
🍵 Len, thank you so much for answering these questions and for your time today, this was a very insightful AMA and we wish you the best of luck in getting the right fit! 😻
😻 Len: Thank you for letting me chat about Kitten Cup! Also!!! I am a resource for non-Kitten Cup things! If you are trying to figure out how to fund your game in Ontario/Canada, want to know about artistic opportunities/grant writing tips, let me know!
🗣 Make sure you follow Len over on Twitter & Kitten Cup Studio over on Twitter as well!
