Stephanie joined us in the Work With Indies Discord in December 2021 to share her experience as a writer across a variety of mediums and how she was able to successfully land her new role at Kitten Cup Studio. What follows is a recap of that conversation.
👋 Happy Thursday and welcome to today's Success Stories with author and writer Stephanie (she/her), who has generously agreed to spend the next hour with us answering questions about her role at Kitten Cup and more!
Stephanie, thank you so much for being here and sharing your insights with the Work With Indies community!
🤔 We are so excited to have you!! Can you start by telling us a little about yourself? Who you are, what you had been doing previously, and what you are up to now? - Katherine
🖊️ Stephanie: ABSOLUTELY! So I've been writing professionally for about a decade now. I've written as a news editor, movie critic, columnist for various entertainment sites, and now I am primarily a graphic novel writer as well as an editor!
I had two middle-grade graphic novels come out this year called Oh My Gods! and ParaNorthern and the Chaos Bunny A-hop-calypse. I love puns a LOT. And while I work on other graphic novel projects, I'm also working on Pekoe with Kitten Cup Studio.
🤔 That is super exciting. I'd love to hear more about your graphic novel and comic work. How does one break into that field? How long did it take you to publish your first work? - Nate
🖊️ Stephanie: Yes! Like many creative jobs, it can be a bit of a slog to break into the industry. I started with short stories to really figure out my creative voice and learn a lot of best practices with writing for comics there. I submitted to a lot of anthologies to build up my portfolio and play around with different genres and push my creative boundaries.
I started handing out my portfolio around to editors when I had a few titles in there and kept applying to other anthologies to keep myself busy. I began working on a few pitches for graphic novels and had no idea what to do with them.
I shopped them around to comic book publishers and got some interest but nothing solid. But then I connected with an editor for a book publisher who was interested in one of my stories but said I needed an agent—so I had to pause, look for an agent, secure someone to help me there, and THEN start submitting again. It was a long process!
[.c-highlight]For instance, we sold ParaNorthern back in 2018. But we had started shopping Oh My Gods in, I think, 2017? And then THAT didn't sell until 2019.[.c-highlight]
[.c-insight]💡 Editor's Note: It took Stephanie 2 years to get a publishing deal! She never gave up and that perseverance not only paid off, but has resulted in a sequel.[.c-insight]
🤔 In your experience, is pitching graphic novels to publishers a similar process to pitching an indie game to a publisher? - Pumanomz
🖊️ Stephanie: Sort of! It is in the sense that you need a portfolio and you need to have an understanding of what it is you're doing. So having a way to show that you grasp the format and medium is essential to finding work.
🤔 Do you identify solely as a game writer or do you consider yourself a designer as well? I'm currently more of a producer but have wanted to branch out into more writing, but don't know if it's pointless without a formal background in creative writing.
🖊️ Stephanie: I definitely consider myself a writer first and foremost. I can draw (a bit) but I don't really use those skills in a professional capacity. I truly don't think you need a formal background in creative writing to be a writer though. I didn't go to school for writing...I actually went to school for Advertising & Graphic Design. And then I dropped out after a year.
[.c-highlight]I think it's great to dabble in different areas that you are curious about and interested in. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't. But you won't know if you don't try![.c-highlight]
🤔 While working on building up your portfolio via anthologies and working on pitches, how did you stay afloat? As a newbie, the finical staying-alive side on top of the "breaking in" side can be a rough balance. - Jamie
🖊️ Stephanie: GREAT QUESTION. And my answer is: [.c-highlight]most creatives have to have a day job to stay afloat and that is nothing to be ashamed of.[.c-highlight]
🖊️ Up until April of this year, I had a full-time day job that I juggled on top of my writing and editing (and other things). I work 40+ hours/week and while it's hard to manage it all, having a job that paid the bills gave me the freedom to only take on the projects that I was excited and passionate about.
It can suck to want to be a creative full-time but the reality of it is that a lot of industries don't value our skills enough to pay us living wages.So we do what we have to do to keep a roof over our heads and food in our bellies while hustling on the things we love to be working on.
And as one follow-up to my point about me also having a day job: I ONLY left my day job because they forced my hand in the matter. I wasn't getting paid enough to stay in the role and it took up too much mental energy to be worth it. I would've kept on having a separate day job otherwise.
[.c-highlight]Don't ever let anyone tell you that you aren't a TRUE creative if you have to pay the bills in other ways. The ugly truth of it is that that's the norm for a lot of people, even if they don't always talk about it.[.c-highlight]
[.c-highlight]Again, you do what you have to do to be financially secure while you work on things that fuel your soul.[.c-highlight]
🤔 I'd like to know what tips you have for building a portfolio? I've got work from game jams and an indie RPG (Monochrome RPG) but I can't get an interview for a decent-paying position. Even one outside of the gaming industry. - MKCyborg
🖊️ Stephanie: It can be hard to really know what exactly people are looking for. I will say that [.c-highlight]one of the things that have gotten me the most interviews (strangely enough) is the fact that I created a radio play several years ago.[.c-highlight]
For some reason, that really interested a LOT of people that I had dabbled in that area and it got my foot in the door. So I think sometimes having a portfolio that showcases that you have the range and can jump between different mediums/formats is intriguing to people.
Just that there's no set rule that if you're applying to games writing position, that your experience exclusively has to be games, you know?
I think showing that you can do a few different genres and voices is great. [.c-highlight]Short stories are an excellent way to showcase your work since it's not a huge commitment for a hiring manager to read through[.c-highlight]—they get a sense of what you're about and can see a variety of what you can offer.
🤔 Where can we find this?! [the radio play] - Nate
🖊️ Stephanie: I'll have to dig it up! We switched it over to a new host recently and I don't know where the link has gotten to (ha, oops) but it was called The 5 People You Meet in Hell and was kind of like a play on the book The 5 People You Meet In Heaven but if it starred like, Seth Rogen.
We were like, what if a bad person died and then had to relive the worst 5 things they did that condemned them to hell.
It was a dark comedy and we TECHNICALLY did a couple of half episodes to round it out to seven and each memory our main character relived was one of the seven deadly sins.
🤔 Is Kitten Cup Studio a new game dev studio? - Brad
🖊️ Stephanie: New-ish, I believe! I don't know exactly when they launched (maybe Len can answer that) but I do know that the lovely team there has been making games for quite a while.
Len: Kitten Cup incorporated in 2020!
🤔 As I'm learning how to be a narrative designer/game writer, what do you think of making a handful of short interactive fiction games to create a fuller portfolio, or to more-so focus on a really good idea and grow it? - Avelore
🖊️ Stephanie: So as I very briefly mentioned, I'm also an editor...so from THAT perspective of things, I personally love seeing a variety. But that's solely a personal preference that I can't say for sure would be what everyone would look for.
🤔 What are some quirks of writing graphic novels that are different from other mediums? Are there any aspects that are very similar or very different from games writing? - Riley
🖊️ Stephanie: The thing with comics is that you can't just write for yourself and be done with it. [.c-highlight]You have to be aware of EVERYONE in the creative team and include information that will guide them[.c-highlight]. For instance, providing a reference for the artist, or including notes about what colour something should specifically be, and how to format your dialogue so that a letterer can easily do their job in adding in all the word balloons.
[.c-highlight]Writers coming to comics (who haven't worked in it before) can sometimes forget that it's an extremely collaborative medium and you need to take the time to understand all the moving parts to be the best team player you can be.[.c-highlight] The writing takes the least amount of time so being mindful of everyone else and their labour is extremely important. I'm forever trying to learn and grow so I can make everyone's lives a little easier.
It might take me 3-6 months to do a script (and numerous drafts) but it can take the artist 12-24 months to do all of that same art.
🤔 These dynamics around collaboration sound quite similar to what I imagine game writing to be like. - Nate
🖊️ Stephanie: It was a HUGE challenge but it was massively fun and rewarding. I think my superpower is managing to network and connect with exactly the right people I need to. And at the time, I had happened to meet this other wonderful podcaster who also happened to be a filmmaker, musician, and producer.
🤔 Was the radio play you mentioned for a project or an anthology or something? How did you decide to make that as a piece of writing? - Riley
🖊️ Stephanie: Okay so I also have a bit of a background in podcasting (I wear a LOT of different hats...) and one day I decided that I wanted to make a radio play. It was for no other reason other than that I wanted to try something new and to challenge myself. HOWEVER, I was extremely ambitious with it. We did a 6-episode series, performed it in front of a live studio audience, recorded it, and then released it as a podcast as well.
For me, it was an exercise in playing with the senses. For instance, with writing comics, you're trying to figure out what the audience will see and what you need to put on the page to tell the story effectively with the art and dialogue.
With writing a radio play, people aren't going to be able to see anything, only hear. So you have to figure out how you substitute out the visual component with interesting ways to engage people through listening-only.
🤔 Do you have any advice on giving and receiving effective feedback? How and where do you find good feedback, and how can we best support our fellow writers in giving feedback? - Riley
🖊️ Stephanie: This is so important! And it's something where I was grateful to have a background in constructive criticism through reviewing movies/TV shows/comics, etc. before I worked directly with creators.
First of all, as far as receiving feedback, it can be HARD to hear that your work isn't perfect. I long for the day when I send in a script and my editor says, "WOW IT'S FLAWLESS, NO EDITS!" but at the same time, I want my story to be the best it can possibly be and no story is perfect. So it's about learning to separate your feelings from the story and understanding that to be a creator, you need to not take things personally.
I always feel a little upset when I first receive notes, especially when they're extensive. But I process those feelings (thanks therapy!) and break down what is being asked of me. I almost always realize that the notes are amazing and will make something better. But it's okay to be bummed if something you liked needs to get cut or changed. It's okay to have to process.
And then for giving feedback, this is also super important. Understand that you sometimes need to cushion your feedback—the HAMBURGER! 🍔
[.c-highlight]The buns = good things about the project!!The burger = the things that need adjusting[.c-highlight]
It's also not always enough to say x, y, z isn't working. You have to sometimes elaborate and EXPLAIN since not everyone will understand why you think something needs to change.
But if you have the motivations behind it, it's easier to process and understand. So having good bedside manners, so to speak, is really key—and being able to have a conversation about why is important too.
🤔 Is this your first game writing gig? - Nate
🖊️ Stephanie: Yes! I've gotten SUPER far in interviews for other studios over the years, including Ubisoft but ultimately lost out to people who already had games writing experience, which I mean, valid.
But it's been something I've been wanting to do for SO long. I love games a ton and this is such an exciting project to be working on. I'm learning a ton and having a blast.
🤔 Follow-up to Nate's question: How do you think your background in graphic novels and comics will lend itself to games? - Katherine
🖊️ Stephanie: They're both visual mediums where you're not just writing a story but thinking about how WHAT your writing will play out on the screen for your audience.
Like, for instance, writing two characters just having a conversation for several pages of a graphic novel can be boring visually. How do you spice that up? How do you make it more interesting for the reader? The same things can be applied to video games too—you want to keep their attention span and keep people engaged. How can you take more "boring" bits of story that they might need for overall context and make it interesting to engage with.
🤔 And, for those of us struggling to land game writing jobs (you said you were at it for years), would you recommend pursuing work through other mediums like graphic novels as an end-around into games? - Nate
🖊️ Stephanie: I recommend dabbling in ANY mediums and formats that you're interested in. I don't think I'd say "do it for the sake of doing it" because again, no creative industry is easy to break into.
But learning about how to tell different types of stories is never a bad thing and you can crossover skills into different areas when it comes to storytelling.
For instance, I never thought I'd become a comic book editor but I knew writing wasn't always available to me. Jobs come and go. So I started editing as a way to supplement my income and break into the industry more. I love it now! And it's been a great way to help keep me busy outside of writing.
[.c-highlight]Trying different things might not always yield ideal results but there are always lessons you can take and apply to things in the future.[.c-highlight]
🤔 What are your thoughts and opinions about fanfiction as a way to grow your portfolio and showcase your writing skills? We've got a few individuals in the server who write it for popular games/other mediums and wanted to know if you (or maybe others you've heard from) think it's a good way to showcase your abilities. - Harmonia
🖊️ Stephanie: I personally think that fanfiction is wonderful. I know it's a divided topic but here's the thing: with fanfiction, you're taking characters that people are ALREADY familiar with (so you don't have to do a ton of worldbuilding) and you can focus on showcasing your ability to tell a story with those characters.
Someone can quickly tell if you're doing them justice (if they're familiar with the property) and it can really showcase how you can tackle existing works.
So I am on Team Fanfiction.
(especially as someone who used to live in RPG forums where I ABSOLUTELY used to roleplay as characters from my fave shows and games with other people lololololol)
🤔 Indie developers get A LOT of applicants for every job, but especially writing and narrative roles. Did Kitten Cup give you any insight into what set you apart from other candidates? Any thoughts about what made this one successful when the others weren't? - Nate
🖊️ Stephanie: Unfortunately not! I will say that I try to make sure that I am upfront and honest about my skills, I try to convey what I'm comfortable with (and not), and do my best to put all my cards on the table. I know I'm a talented writer and editor. I KNOW I can do the job but I know that (for me) I have limitations when it comes to game writing but I'm willing to learn.
And again, I think my portfolio showcases that I try new things, step outside my comfort zone a lot, and take the time to grow as a creator regularly.
[.c-insight]💡 Editor's Note: This is great! Being honest about your limitations is a plus! We all have them. Pretending that we don't or being afraid to say "I don't know" in an interview is a quick way to lose trust.
Following that up with "I'm willing and excited to learn" and then showcasing that you have previously been successful when stepping out of your comfort zone and taking on new challenges instills confidence that you can do it again.
A good chunk of many knowledge work and creative jobs is problem-solving and figuring things out. The range of creative projects in Stephanie's portfolio tells us that she is able to do just that.[.c-insight]
🗣 STEPHANIE!! This has been so much fun and so very insightful. Thank you for sharing yourself with us here today.
To wrap things up, I would like to ask two final questions:
- Do you have any final words of advice or encouragement you would like to share with our community?
- Where can we find and support you and your work online?
🖊️ Stephanie: THANK YOU!!!!! I am so sorry if I didn't get to anyone's question...I did my best to keep up (I am a writer and subsequently all my answers are VERY WORDY). But yes, thank you all for joining in.
- You all are rock stars. Just putting yourself out there is more than so many people ever do. If you want to write, keep writing. If you aren't able to find a way to do that for others (ie. at a games studio, publisher, etc.), do it for yourself. There are so many ways that you can tell your story these days, so do it!—And always be your own #1 fan (I know this is hard cause imposter syndrome...but I believe in you!)
- I am TERMINALLY ONLINE, especially on Twitter and Instagram. My username is @/hellocookie on both of them and you can learn more about me on my website: stephaniecooke.ca!
